I'm not on the Rust bandwagon, but statements like this make absolutely no sense.
A lot of software was written in C and C++ because they were the only option for decades. If you couldn't afford garbage collection and needed direct control of the hardware there wasn't much of a choice. Had their been "safer" alternatives, it's possible those would have been used instead.
It's only been in the last few years we've seen languages emerge that could actually replace C/C++ with projects like Rust, Zig and Odin. I'm not saying they will, or they should, but just that we actually have alternatives now.
If you’re trying to demonstrate something about Rust by pointing out that someone chose C over Perl, I have to wonder how much you know about the positive characteristics of C. Let alone Rust.
Your comment comes across disingenuous to me.
Writing it in, for example, Java would have limited it to situations where you have the JVM available, which is a minuscule subset of the situations that curl is used in today, especially if we're not talking "curl, the CLI tool" but libcurl.
I have a feeling you know that already and mostly want to troll people.
And Golang is only 16 years old according to Wikipedia, by the way.
Java might not be the most popular VM in Linux, but let's talk Perl or Python. It's installed by default almost everywhere, it's probably impossible to find a useful Linux installation without these runtimes. So writing curl with Python makes perfect sense, right? It's memory safe language, good for handling inherently unsafe Internet data. Its startup time is miniscule, compared to typical network response. Lots of advantages. Yet curl is still written with C.
I've never used libcurl and I don't know why is it useful, so let's focus on curl. Of course if you want C library, you gotta write it with C, that's kind of weird argument.
My point is, there were plenty of better options to replace C. Yet people chose to use C for their projects and continue to do so. Rust is not even good option for most projects, as it's too low level. It's a good option for Linux kernel, but for user space software? I'm not sure.
"[...] it's probably impossible to find a useful Linux installation without [Perl or Python]. [...]"
Oof. We seem to have very, very different definitions for both "Linux" and "useful".
If all Linux installs w/o Perl or Python would cease to exist tomorrow, we'd probably enter a global crisis. Industrial processes failing left and right, collapse of wide swaths of internet and telecom infrastructure and god knows what else from ships to cars and smartphones.
Regarding libcurl: libcurl probably represents the vast majority of curl installations. curl the CLI tool is mostly porcelain on top of libcurl. libcurl is used in _a lot_ of places. For example, inside the PHP runtime. And god knows were else, there must be billions of installations as part of other projects. It's not a weird argument, libcurl is 95% of the raison d'être for curl.
If you want a curl-like tool in Python or Perl, you gotta write it in Python or Perl. Somebody probably already did. So maybe just use one of these?
Instead of demanding that curl be transformed into something which is incompatible with it's mission statement.
By the 90s/early 2000s C/C++ were the only widely used languages that met my criteria. Rust is the first "modern" language to meet that criteria while simultaneously offering memory safety.
If you could afford garbage collection you had plenty of options.
OS kernels? Everything from numpy to CUDA to NCCL is using C/C++ (doing all the behind the scene heavy lifting), never mind the classic systems software like web browsers, web servers, networking control plane (the list goes on).
Newer web servers have already moved away from C/C++.
Web browsers have been written in restricted subsets of C/C++ with significant additional tooling for decades at this point, and are already beginning to move to Rust.
For Chrome, I don't know if anyone has compiled the stats, but navigating from https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/refs/heads/... I see at least a bunch of vendored crates, so there's some use, which makes sense since in 2023 they announced that they would support it.
Not in the sense that people who are advocating writing new code in C/C++ generally mean. If someone is advocating following the same development process as Chrome does, then that's a defensible position. But if someone is advocating developing in C/C++ without any feature restrictions or additional tooling and arguing "it's fine because Chrome uses C/C++", no, it isn't.
Sure, my point is the safety is not why they originally supplanted C and C++. It was seen largely as a tradeoff between ease of development and runtime performance. Memory safety as a goal of its own didn’t become prominent until much later.
I have. I personally really enjoy the recent crop of UI frameworks built for the web. Tools like Solidjs or Svelte.
Whatever your thoughts are about react, the JavaScript community that has been the tip of the spear for experimenting with new ways to program user interfaces. They’ve been at it for decades - ever since jQuery. The rest of the programming world are playing catchup. For example, SwiftUI.
VSCode is also a wonderful little IDE. Somehow much faster and more stable than XCode, despite being built on electron.
Great points! I think your point about the JS community is often overlooked. Electron et al have made desktop UI/UX considerations more salient in the JS world. Desktop-like experiences in the browser can be great.
